Lost in Translation: The US & UK Accommodation Conversation

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Hello everyone and welcome to Situ's Beyond Booking webinar, Loss in Translation, the US and UK accommodation

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conversation. I'm Jessica, Situ's marketing engagement manager and it's

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great to have you with us. Quick housekeeping just to let everyone know we are recording today's session. Uh if

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you're new to us, Situ, we are a global accommodation specialist who support

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mobility and travel teams with flexible, highquality accommodation, making

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complex programs simple and people first.

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In today's live insightled webinar, we will be exploring how the US and the UK

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accommodation markets really work and why understanding the differences matter

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more than ever. We are delighted to have James, ASAP's chief executive and

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Barbara, managing partner from Deluxe Suites and Deluxe Lodging. Your hosts

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today are Jake, our account manager, and Kristen, our strategic partnerships

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director at Situ. So, without any further ado, I'll hand over to Jake.

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Hi everyone. Uh, thanks so much for joining us uh today. Um, for those I

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haven't had the pleasure of meeting yet, uh, as Jess uh, brilliantly pointed out, I'm Jake. um joining you from the UK and

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co-hosting with one of my favorite people uh in the world, Kristen McLaughlin, uh also from Situ, who's joining us from

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the US and will be helping us uh represent the American perspective and keeping me humbled when I inevitably

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claim that the UK does everything better for what we're hoping this will be a fun but genuinely useful conversation uh

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over the next hour or so. Today's session is uh called Lost in Translation, the US and UK accommodation

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conversation. Uh, and the idea came from something that we all experience in this industry all the time, which is that

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we're often talking about the same thing, but using completely different words, definitions, and expectations

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depending on which side of the Atlantic you're on. Sometimes that's amusing, sometimes it's

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slightly confusing, and occasionally it's the reason that we end up with large financial hits or a disgruntled

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traveling employee and a process that's gone off the rails. So rather than pretend that we all agree, we thought

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we'd lean into the differences and talk about them properly. And we're really pleased to be joined by three brilliant

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people from across the industry. Uh three, two, uh we're joined by Barb Hale

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uh from Deluxe Suites, uh who many of you will know as one of the most respected voices in the corporate housing space in the US and also James Foice from ASAP, representing the UK service department sector and bringing a really important industry perspective to

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the discussion. So between the four of us, we're hoping to bring a bit of insight, a bit of

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friendly transatlantic rivalry, and ideally not start an international incident. Um, so uh before we get into

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the debate, we wanted to do a bit of a quick poll check, uh, with all of you. So, um, essentially, uh, this is where

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the confusion usually begins. Um, and so there should be a poll coming up, uh, any second, uh, which is going to ask

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what you define as a long-term stay or extended stay. So uh what to you is a

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long stay? Uh at what point does a booking no longer uh is it no longer

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transient or a short stay and essentially uh determined a long stay

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and as I expected a very wide ranging selection of answers to that um

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the majority being 28 plus nights. I think the US team will be uh thrilled

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with that.

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Other is interesting. 3% of you that have said other um more than more than

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six months, I'm assuming. I'm assuming it's not less than seven nights. In the US, I would definitely say we

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think six months. Um on average, Barb, correct me if I'm wrong. Um, sometimes it could be 90 days, but in the US, I

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would say primarily long-term, we get excited and think it's 6 months plus. Barb, what do you think? I think anything 6 months plus is

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exciting in itself. Yeah, that's a longterm stay. Yeah.

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Can you dive in a little bit more, Jake, on the UK side for the long term? You guys look at that.

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Marriott essentially uh from my days at Marriott five nights or more they considered an extended stay but of

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course we're going to come on to terminology in a second in terms of language um but I mean me personally it

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it's um it's I equate it to how would I feel staying in a hotel at what point

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would I not want to be in a hotel any longer um from a comfort perspective and for me it would probably be about five

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nights but five nights um yeah or a longer Would that have to do a

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lot with the service department where you guys have a lot more flexibility and can do more of the nightly stays where here in the states technically a

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12-month lease with an apartment complex is standard. Um, and to get a short-term lease, it's 90 days usually is the

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minimum. So, I think that's where we start with the six-month plus with our terminology for long-term. Um, I'm

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wondering if that that's the break in the communication there. Yeah. Um,

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and that's essentially it, isn't it? is is is extended stay, long-term stay, midterm stay, short-term stay. There's

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all of these definitions. Um but none of them are actually defined, I think, is is what we're finding.

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And that was Jake, just to just to support what you're saying, it's so tricky, isn't it? Because um looking at

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who stays in service departments in the UK is one thing and how long they're staying is something completely

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different. So extended stay or apart hotel products, anything over a few nights is a long stay. But of course in

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a corporate environment 90 days 28 days 90 days something like that would be considered a long stay. So it really

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depends also and this is where the terminology issues come who are we talking about who is the customer and

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how long are they staying. Yeah and leading nicely on from that James and if we can't defer define

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long-term stay amongst us by the the length of the stay let's try and do it uh with words. So what word do you use

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to describe your offering? Uh is the next poll which will be coming up uh now. Um and again uh it's just what term

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do you actually use to describe your offering. So is it corporate housing uh service department extended stay?

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It depends who I'm talking to.

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I think this one is a clear sort of uh transatlantic difference, right? You

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guys call it corporate housing. We call it service department, which is weird because we don't even call our homes apartments. We call them flats. But um a

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service flat isn't very sexy, I guess, in a on a quote. Uh and so we use

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apartments uh just for this specific uh thing. Um, it's not something we would

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use really dayto-day to describe, as I said, our homes. So, and I would say here in the States, we

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usually use corporate housing, furnished apartments, or temp living, I think, are the three main terminologies that we we

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utilize. Again, when and why, I'm not quite sure. I think again, it depends on who the audience is. Um, and when we

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choose to use one of those different terms. Yeah. And it's exactly the point. In many ways, we're all operating in the

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same sort of space, but depending on where you sit in the world, or sometimes even which industry body you belong to.

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The language changes completely. Um, and it's not really just industry terminology though. Um, the UK and US

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have always had a habit of describing the exact same thing in totally different ways. Um, so clearly we are

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struggling to agree on what extended day actually means, let alone what we call it. Um, and what we thought we'd do

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first is because the UK and US have a long history of describing the exact same thing in completely different ways,

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uh, and I should say this has been a source of friendly debate between Kristen and I, or affectionate arguing as I like to call it, um, is, uh, you

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know, everything from wardrobe to closet, from biscuit to cookie, lift to elevator, and of of course the most

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important question, which is which side of the road you're supposed to drive on. um answer obviously is is the the left

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hand side. Um even though we do drive on the right side. Yeah, the right hand side. Um I will

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present conclusive evidence as to why uh we drive on the correct side of the road uh later. Um Chris might dispute.

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I also want I have a couple more to add. I just I you connected with our guest care team who you know are at the front

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lines working both with our UK the MIA teams and also across across the world. Um, and a few that I just found really

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interesting that we really don't think about is like hamper versus welcome basket. A hamper here in the states is

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actually where you put your dirty clothes. Dirty clothes basket is is called a hamper, but with our UK team,

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they love to deliver hampers, welcome baskets for the guest. Um, another one that actually made me laugh yesterday

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that I actually never thought about was underground versus subway. Uh, in the UK they say underground, we say Subway. And

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as our guest care team said yesterday, Subway is a sandwich. So, I got to get

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laugh laugh about that where we say Subway. Um, another one that I think is really tricky is bi-weekly and

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fortnightly. I if you think about the term bi-weekly for for housekeeping, it really truly, you would think it's more twice a week

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versus every other week, but we use bi-weekly. Um, you guys say fortnightly,

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and here in the States, it makes me think of the video game. So those are little things that that I absolutely

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find fascinating in the different terminology. Can you explain to me what fortnightly

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fortnightly? Every Fortnite. So a fortnight being two weeks. Um 14 days. Um so fortnightly is

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yeah every 14 days. And bi-weekly actually means both things. It means twice a week and every other week. uh by

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definition if you have a Google or a chat GPT or whatever sort of um search engine uh you're using um so it's

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interesting that again that same word means the same thing twice but do you not use fortnitly then in the US is that

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not like or a fortnite I have never said that word one day in my life and if you put a hamper in my

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service department I don't want it if you put a welcome basket in my service department I really want it

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Yes, just referencing as well how you two have turned up in your matching USA jumpers today for anyone that didn't um

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notice. Sweatshirts um

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we had to represent. My cursor has disappeared. It's back. I

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found it. Um, so, uh, sorry, I'm just finding my

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Well, I love actually a lot of things that have kicked this conversation off along with the different terminology I felt which kind of took from a fun

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conversation to a more productive conversation is notice to vacate. Uh,

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that is a term that I I realized we all when you say do you understand, they say

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they understand, I say understand. But technically we're saying two completely different things when it comes to notice

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to vacate which um is extremely important to understand both sides

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because they have a complete different understanding and also especially on the America's side can be a costly costly

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misunderstanding. So Jake do you want to go in or Jake um do you want to go into what a notice to vacate means in your

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world? Well, it's not really a term we use so much. What it really we we we

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translate it or what we think and we assume it means is how many days notice you need to give to avoid cancellation

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charges if you're shortening your stay once in house essentially. So, it's uh you know 14 days prior to you leaving.

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If you give 10 days notice, you'll be charged 4 days. Like that would be our often misconception of what an NTV is

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because it means something totally different. Um, I will try and explain it as to how I think it is because it's

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probably still going to be wrong and you've explained this to me many times. Um, but essentially doesn't matter what

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your checkout date is. You still need to provide whatever the agreed notice to vacate is to confirm you are actually

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leaving on the date that you've booked until, which to me seems wild cuz just book like

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yeah, you've booked till that date. That's that's the date you've booked till. Why do I need to reconfirm that or

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you go into a m an extra month's contract or I you'll explain it better than I will ever understand it. So,

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so here in uh we have well one we're locked into lease agreements and you've got the lease end date but that lease

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that end date is not necessarily uh firm and so with the and what we have to do

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is we require the multif family with so with the apartment community they usually require 30 or 60day notice to

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vacate. Obviously, in our world of corporate housing, service departments, flexibility is key. Um, and we'll need

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there a lot of times now, companies are asking for more for those 14, 15 night notice to vacates, which can be tricky

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because they're held to lease agreements with the apartment communities that require this 30 and 60-day notice to vacates. Um, but what it is is even

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though it does sound cumbersome and it is a costly mistake and it can be kind of a bear, at the end of the day, I

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always like to look at the positive. It gives at the end of the day, it gives the the guest the first right of

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refusal. Um, and it allows them to extend if they need. It gives them that flexibility if they're they're unsure

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about their project, if their home if they're looking to purchase a home. We all know things can kind of go ary

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there. So, it allows them a little bit more flexibility to provide if they're going to need to extend. Here in the

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States, we don't have the fixed inventory like you guys have, which I am envious of. Um, so if the le if they put

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it on notice and that apartment gets pre-leasased and it's no longer available, um, the transferey has quite

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a bit of a hiccup and challenge ahead of them as to finding where they're going to stay, whether it's for just a couple nights, whether it's for another month

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because we may not have necessarily have that inventory in that same building where they could just do a smooth move

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to a to a different unit for a couple nights. They may have to move across town, they may have to go to a hotel. So

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the notes to vacate actually gives them the first right of refusal. you are required whether depending on what the

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requirement is 15 14 15 30 days noticed prior to the lease end date also include

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business days. Um so that way we can give enough notice and then that allows whether it's the provider or the

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apartment community to know it's now firm and then they can start pre-leasing and everyone's happy and everyone's on

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the same page. But it can be costly. If you miss it, it will roll over. Um it can vary. Usually

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it's day by day. you're you then have to give that 14-day notice period. So, you usually going to be locked in for at

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least a minimum of 14 days, unless it's 15 or 30-day notice. Barb, do you have

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anything to add on that for me? Did I leave anything off? Thorough. No, I'm good. You just rock

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that. You're good. See, we do we do slightly similar thing in that we have some providers will

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offer a guaranteed option to extend which essentially is up to 14 days before the departure date that apartment

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is blocked for them to extend should they need to or wish to but is not uh if if you go up beyond that and you hit

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that day 13 before departure it just becomes available to be resold. There's no financial hit on the the guest. Um

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sorry James, you were going to say something. All I was going to say I think what's fascinating is the variance between the operating models. So we

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talked about fixed inventory versus flexible inventory and that of course will determine the right to vacate or

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not because if the inventory is going back because it's variable then there's no option to extend and I think that's

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that's what I found so fascinating but or or or less fewer options to extend let's say but with the fixed inventory

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that we have here in the UK then of course there is always options to extend always though like what if you're 100%

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occupied what do you do with them Does that happen? Is that such a thing? We should we should put that out the

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delegates in the room, don't we? I think um having worked as a an

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operator and on that side for a long time as well. I uh depending on the length of the extension requests, you

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you would potentially book out a one night or a two night stay to a to somewhere else to accommodate a

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threemonth extension. Um was is one thing that that would happen in those cases. Um, but you're right, James,

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generally there's always a no-show or a cancellation even when you are 100%. But then it depends. If you've got 14 units

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versus 400, then it's, you know, you very well are likely to be fully booked at 14 units in summer months and and

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things like that. So, um, and interestingly, you were talking about 14 days, Kristen, and and we would say

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nights here. We charge by the night and you charge by the day, which is a bit greedy really, isn't it? Because you're getting an extra day revenue.

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You do. Greedy or smart? It's fair. That is the question.

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Yes, that's been that's definitely been eye opening is the the switch between the daily and the nightly for sure.

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That's a definitely key difference. Do you know the history on why we're daily?

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I know that's a pop in that's a surprise question for you, but I just thought of it. I wasn't sure. I don't know. I I really don't know. I

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mean, the hotel industry is nightly. Um I I remember a time that And I wouldn't

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even know. Someone put it in the chat like when this happened, but I feel like it was moons ago, like 15 years ago. And

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there's always been a slight debate out there um on nightly or daily, but I think we all are just really comfortable

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with the daily. Um I think it's, you know, a good thing for

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our industry in the US to be daily. So essentially, you're charging the day of arrival and then the day of checkout

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is charged as a as a day essentially. That uh can would you resell the same day? So you're getting double revenue

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potentially on Oh my god. Yeah. If I can get my apps team in there, you bet I am, right? I mean, it's a day if you think

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about it. If checkout time is 11:00, right, and you're you're operating these

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units, then you got to make sure that your operations team can turn it. And

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that's always um a fun conversation in the US is how long have they been in there? Did they have a dog or a cat? Did

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they have seven dogs and a pig? Like what did they have in their apartment? Were they a pig? Um

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it's no joke. We just got a lead for a kangaroo. I'm like kangaroo.

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Anyway, that's a new one. Kangaroo. Yeah, I've had a a fish tank aquarium.

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uh 30 tropical fish traveling internationally overseas for four weeks stay which seems like a lot of effort to

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transport a body of water with 30 fish for um and then a single man with two

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guinea pigs and I think in his 30s I think that might be why he's a single man traveling with two guinea pigs um

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but um before we move on to the next section I did promise proof that the British are

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uh correct about driving on the left and uh we had this debate Kristen I think nearly two years ago now um when we

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first properly met in Atlanta in July uh 2024 and um you didn't believe me and

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then I think you chat GBTED it uh and that was a painful that was a painful loss of uh your say you were correct

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yeah tastes like vinegar yeah and yeah no I I do think it's a fascinating story

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it makes sense so essentially back before Henry Ford popularized the uh the

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motor vehicle he also sort of popularized the 5day working week so he has quite a lot to answer for I think.

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Um but before that we used to have horse and cart and before horse and cart just horses and we were generally pretty

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barbaric. Um and so we had like jousting and kn like big swords and shields and

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about 90% or over 90% of the world for sure are right-handed right being the dominant hand. And so we always rode our

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horses on the left so that we had our right hand our strong hand free to attack or defend. And of course when we

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moved to horse and carts we had highway men and event it sort of became the same thing. And so it was the British Empire that sort of introduced it uh for

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driving left side driving rules in the 1700s. Um and literally because most people

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were right-handed and they wanted their sword hand facing oncoming riders which means historically speaking that Britain

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engineered road safety and America later decided to freestyle it.

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Tada. as we do. Well, but it makes sense like when you put it into that, you're like, "Oh, of course.

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Yeah, of course that makes total sense." But um it also just proves you wrong. And actually, that's a silly thing to

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say cuz about we're probably one of like very few countries that drive on the left. Everybody else drives on the right

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hand side. So, I say that expecting a large onslaught of uh debate post call

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from people, which is um yes. Um, I do think it would be fun to dive into

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kind of the different models now that we've talked about the notice to vacates in the different language just to kind of go into more or less kind of the

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service department model that you guys deliver on and then Barb and I can kind of dive into the complexities that many

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may not even know about um outside of the US that corporate housing has upon us. Um, and I think it would be great to

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actually kind of just showcase those two differences. Yeah. Um, certainly I mean here in the UK, right, the stock is whilst quite

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fragmented. It's we've got a lot of large branded sort of single-use developments, but then also a large

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amount of smaller operators that are in mixeduse buildings. So, essentially, they've got a couple of units in that

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building, but they're operated full-time as a a short-term service department, corporate housing, extended stay,

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whatever it is we're using as the definition. Um, but ultimately, they are like your core stock, right? And maybe

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that's a a good way to pivot into you explaining your core versus non-core

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stock and how that works. But um over here it's that they operate generally as

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as a service department professionally that we would use anyway um you know all the time and it's that same apartment is

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used consistently which is great for consistency. Uh everything often looks the same with the same partner in the

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same building. Um, of course, again, you're going to explain now why that's not the case in the US.

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It's completely No, I I do envy the the consistency and then also the the fixed inventory just makes things a lot

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simpler in our world. Um, where the US is definitely especially postcoid uh

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pre-COVID a lot of companies took out this bulk units um within apartment communities and kind of had that service

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department type feel. um especially postcoid a lot of corporate housing providers have become more risk adverse

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um mirror leasing I don't know if anybody's heard outside of the Americas but it's pretty much just taking out a

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lease term that mirrors exactly what the guest is needing um it's great because it's riskadverse for the corporate

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housing provider but it's not so great with flexibility month-to-month requests that I feel like are pretty pretty much

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predominant these days flexibility is um I feel like a requirement especially now

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even more so. So, it definitely makes it a little bit harder. Um, and because of that, it's we're really the apartment

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communities are resident lease focused. And what that means, they primarily are focused on those 12-month unfernished

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leases. That's their number one goal. We're kind of second to them. Um, a lot of times the shortest lease term that

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you can get is a 90-day lease term with an apartment community. So, a lot of times those providers are having to look at the demand and and enable to make

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risks to make the longerterm leases, get the better rates. Um, also a lot of apartment communities now have gone to

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centralized leasing offices. So, it makes it harder for the providers to get availability, to get updated um,

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answers. And then also the big one is touring. Um, when there's centraliz

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leasing office and someone's not on site, it's really hard and it can take a couple days to make sure to get those

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tours scheduled successfully. Um, when you say tour, you mean well, we would call it a viewing essentially. I I

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didn't even know that. But yes, exactly. Uh there's, you know, I I feel like it's there's definitely more of an uptick of

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the the guests are wanting more to to see, touch, and feel uh the apartment where I would say years ago it was you

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send three options, they look at some pictures, and they make a decision, and that was it. Um I feel like today the

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the decision for a corporate apartment or service department is a lot more involved. Um the guests are more

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involved. They're doing their online research. They've nine times out of 10, this isn't their first time. so they're

24:52

familiar with what they want, what they don't want. Um, and so they're be they're becoming a lot more specific.

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Um, and with that, it can make it difficult, especially with the online going to do their homework, looking at

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the apartment communities. This I want this building, it's walking distance to my office, but when you take a deeper dive on our side, um, that community may

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not have they might be at their corporate lease maximum. What that means also, a lot of the apartment communities

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can't run corporate applications um, on site. So it also takes the providers are

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having to work a lot more with the multif family world to establish those relationships to get more um approved on

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a corporate level. Um and also usually they will all lot about a 5 to 10% um uh

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a lotment for corporate leases. So if they're at their maximum and you're wanting just a a 90-day lease, they'll

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likely the client if you come to them and you want five six month leases, they easily could override that. So, it

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definitely takes strong relationships with the multif family industry on our side to definitely accommodate a lot of those requests. Um, also we've got

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credit checks, background checks, income verifications that can get involved. Um,

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and then I will let Barb touch on these two that I think are extremely important factors to touch on are uh rates can

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change by the hour. So, I feel like we're always a broken record. rates and availability are subject to change. And

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I don't feel like a lot of times um whether it's a corporate client, an RMC, a TMC, sometimes they may not understand

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what exactly that means or why. It's not a selling tactic. It's actually the truth. Um and then also why we're not

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flexible on certain things because of the binding lease agreements and the Fair Housing Acts. And Barb, I would

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love for you to kind of dive in on your experience on both of those. Well, it's funny. I had our sales

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meeting today and Yieldar, which is the software used on properties to um offer

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the rental rates that they're giving. I understand from my team that you can go on some apartment communities that says

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we are not Yieldstar. We do not use the Yieldstar software, which for us is a great thing. So, what happens for us is

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we'll go to a property and say, "Hey, we need, you know, a unit or a apartment for 6 months." and they say, "Yep, your,

27:08

you know, rental rate is $2,200." The customer takes two weeks to make a

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decision and they come back and say, "We want that apartment." Well, that rate just went up to $2,500.

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Right? Sometimes it goes up $500 by the time we offer the rate. The customer makes a decision, go back, and then we

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have to go back to the customer and they're almost annoyed because they really do think it's corporate. Like,

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we're setting the price, right? So all the relocation events that I go to, the customers are all saying, the corporate

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customers saying, why is temp housing, why is corporate housing so expensive? I mean, that's

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another I'm not touching that one, but um Yieldar promotes a a it's very

27:52

interesting um what YieldStar has done to our industry

27:58

and the customers do not understand it. They really don't. So we do our best to educate. Fair housing is also do you

28:05

have anything like that Jake or James in the UK like a fair housing and I'll go

28:11

into that we well James is going to touch on some of this stuff uh uh a

28:17

little bit later on in this in this webinar and sort of what could be coming at the moment not really there is a a

28:23

restriction in London particularly which is minimum 90 nights that you can lease your apartment out if it's not got a C1

28:30

hotel license um and So, um, outside of London, there isn't in

28:37

England. Now, Scotland is different, Wales is different, uh, Northern Ireland is different, and and James is is is the

28:43

expert. Uh, I say expert, I don't know. Is anyone an expert?

28:49

Is anyone an expert on it? But we'll talk about that in a second because it is complicated, Bob. And I think your point is really relevant because talking

28:56

about terminology, it's an understanding of the product that I think we have a problem with here in the UK. And I and

29:01

I'll expand on that when we get the second. Okay. So, fair housing is a um as I was

29:07

researching it, I'm like, this is sad that we had to put a policy, a law policy in place. But basically what fair

29:14

housing is is to say um if Kristen goes in to rent an apartment, I've already

29:20

rented apartment and they say all the blondes are going to live in apartment A, right? or and when I was in property

29:26

management, I don't know why I found this just the best game ever, but I would be in the elevator. I'd be halfway

29:33

through the tour with a leasing person and I'm like, "Whoa, the cars in the parking lot look really nice. So, you have a really nice demographic living

29:39

here." You can I mean, if they answered, I'd be like, "Whoop, you shouldn't

29:44

answer that, right?" But if they answer, it is just to stop the stereotypical

29:50

that everyone is equal. You treat everyone the same way. Um, and in a nutshell, I mean, I could go on and on

29:55

about fair housing. That is what that policy states. So, um, it said that we

30:02

had to get there. Um, but we do have it and it is super important in in the

30:07

apartment industry. I mean, it is probably number one of things they need to think about when they're touring

30:13

apartments and talking to potential residents. Kristen, anything? It's pretty much the protected class.

30:19

So, um, and I can it's race, color, national origin, religion, sex, gender, family status, and disability.

30:26

Um, and also I feel like on top of that, I feel like we get a lot of requests. I feel quality and safety. Quality and

30:33

safety, I feel like our number one buzzwords that we get for requests, uh, which make perfect sense. However, here

30:39

in the states, we cannot we cannot say this is a safe neighborhood. We have to say the zip, uh, there's no um, what is

30:46

it? Uh, safety doesn't have a zip code. Um because at the end of the day, it's really a personal choice. Someone moving

30:52

maybe from Kansas to New York City are going to be a lot more hesitant or maybe worried or have a different level of

30:58

uncomfortableness uh versus someone moving from London to Kansas. Um they'll have a different

31:05

different level of what makes them feel comfortable. So that's also where we need to educate that you know we always say kind of do your research do what is

31:13

you know take a look at what's important to you um to make sure that you are comfortable with with that area. Of

31:18

course quality we can always check on that but safety is is definitely something that we cannot speak on.

31:24

Also ever we also we can ask for the number of adults and the number of children but we

31:29

cannot ask um the sex of who's going to be in the apartment as well. um anybody

31:34

over 18 and and what are the ages of um the children under 18 that also applies

31:40

with the number of people that you can have in an apartment um as well. So a lot of those that we are um have those

31:47

less flexibilities just because but it's nice as as you said it's sad that we had to get to that point but it definitely

31:52

keeps us in check but on the other side of it it's also another reason why we have less flexibility on certain things.

31:59

Um, I was given an example the other day where we had someone that had some water damage in their apartment. So, they had

32:05

to bring in the the the fans and and all of the things and it took maybe two days. Um, and it was an inconvenience.

32:11

We took care of all of that. However, they didn't want to be in the apartment anymore. Um, it was deemed habitable.

32:16

There was no sign of mold. They did all of the the necessary requirements. Um,

32:22

and once it's deemed habitable and everything is fine, we are no longer able just to move them because of personal choice. um if it was deemed

32:29

there was mold or any type of a safety issue, then we're able to move them. So, that also took another um educational

32:36

piece for our guest. Again, it's not a service department where you can just move across the hall and and into a to a

32:42

new apartment. Um so, we're definitely held to a little bit more, but I think that's also where communication and

32:48

education is so important to talk about it. Um because some of these things I don't feel like a lot of people are very

32:53

familiar with. And then also real quick before we get to you James, I wanted to jump into also on um why those rates

33:00

change by the day or month. And you were mentioning YieldStar. Um Barb, that is

33:06

actually a revenue management system that the apartment communities are now running. Um it's not a sales tactic

33:12

tactic. It's more of a revenue management. Um so pretty much what they're doing is they're looking and adjusting their rates based on their

33:18

availability, the supply, the demand, and the lease terms at that time. So they're able to control um who's moving

33:24

out on certain months. So if there's a you know obviously summer months are very different. So when you come to August and everyone's vacating because

33:31

they're moving into their new homes or what have you or starting schools um they're going to be left with a ton of vacancy. So they're going to actually

33:37

make those rates different uh to try and fill those apartments as quick as possible. Um so it it definitely can

33:46

change again by the hour, which is why the kind of wait and see. let's just get a price check and then we're going to

33:52

come back and then we want to move forward with it two weeks later and it's completely different. something Kristen you said really quick

33:59

um which would be another great webinar to have are the cultures around the world um because many many times um

34:08

someone will come to me and say hey um I need to take out a one-bedroom apartment

34:14

but they want eight individuals living in it right and again our laws are two heads

34:22

per bed right two heads per bedroom it doesn't fit in a onebedroom, right?

34:28

So, it is very difficult because they think it's natural and normal and we don't. Again, another cultural

34:36

differences between uh the US and other countries as well.

34:41

And and interesting, Bob, you say the laws won't allow it. I was just wondering how that sort of related to

34:47

where we are and and we wouldn't necessarily have any laws that stopped it. But we would have insurance um

34:53

restrictions on that apartment or on that flat or on that accommodation type that says um this this apartment is is

35:00

um insured for the purposes of whatever and it will not house any more than two or three people whatever it might be

35:06

that way. So there's no actual legislation that stops it but it's more around the implications of something

35:12

going wrong. That's interesting. That's a good way to say it though.

35:18

Yeah, because that's really serious then, isn't it? People will reconsider if they know that they're not insured,

35:24

right? Yeah. That's funny you say two heads,

35:30

Barb. We've always said two heartbeats. And a room constitutes a room with a door, a window, and a closet. But a

35:37

newborn baby up to a certain age and I forget the age can stay in that room in a what is it? Two.

35:44

One or two. Yeah, I think it's two. I think it's one or two. We have a size definition. I think it's

35:50

6 foot by six foot or six. Yeah, six foot by six foot is is the minimum requirement for it to be classified as a

35:56

bedroom. I think at university my uh second year housing was 6 foot by about 6.5 foot in size. it fit a single bed in

36:05

and that was it really pretty much. Um so but that legally at the time I don't

36:10

know if it's changed was classified as what was defined as a bedroom sort of in a in a HMO or or a leasing perspective.

36:16

So um it's interesting the different ways that's defined as well based on

36:21

whether it's by by person by size by Yeah. And I just saw Emily Hey Emily thanks

36:27

for for uh giving the answer. She actually just said uh one it's one year old. So up to one year old. So if it's a

36:34

couple with a one-year-old or a child a baby under one then they can get a they can have a onebedroom. Um if the baby is

36:42

over one then they would be required to have a two-bedroom. And I've seen it with dogs before where

36:48

they have a pet friendly policy and but up to 30 pounds in weight the dog has to be. And you kind of think are you going

36:53

to weigh the dog on entry? Like how do you define? you know, some small dogs are very heavy and uh and so yeah, it's

37:00

it's again a weird definition is weird, right? And and context is so important in all of it because actually um

37:08

it really is a minefield and it really is a a a wild disparity between all of

37:14

them and what they mean. Often the same, often different. And that's proven, right, through this this conversation

37:20

and and uh and the polls at the start, which which shows everybody. Um

37:26

Jake, really quick on that dog thing. I just toured a property um two weeks ago.

37:32

Hold on, I got to find a professional way to say this. And they said to wait and breed.

37:38

Um they DNA your dog. And we all can figure out how they do that. And that if

37:43

your dog goes outside and you don't pick it up, they will run the DNA and you

37:49

will be fined. Yep. And so again, if they run the DNA and you've got pitbull, I mean, all German

37:56

Shepherd, all the um restricted breeds, they're going to find out.

38:02

Yep. See, German Shepherd, not not a restricted breed here in the UK. Um,

38:08

interestingly. Um, yeah, that's interesting to know. I mean, I have a dog and I I I just

38:14

passive aggressively offer people a dog poo bag that don't pick up their Oh, did you put your Did you need a dog poo bag?

38:21

Um, it doesn't work. You actually just touched on something interesting. So, do you guys not The dog breed's not as common. The dog breed

38:28

restrictions not as common over there. So, um, in a service department, you could take a pitbull or a German Shepherd or any of the classified

38:35

aggressive breeds are are banned here to to to a certain extent. Um, uh, German shepherds

38:41

are not, I believe. Um, so they're often used as security dogs here, uh, police

38:47

dogs, and yeah, they're not, as far as I'm aware, but I will be happy to stand corrected, um, on that. U,, but no,

38:54

German Shepherds aren't. There are some pits, American pits. Um, I'm trying to think of the recent one that was in the

39:00

news quite a lot here. Um, as well there's there's a register of dangerous dogs, isn't there? And I think that

39:07

that's always on under review and people are looking at it and determining how they behave in public spaces and what

39:12

they must wear and so on. But I think that's as far as

39:17

bullies. Can I just pick up a point Sarah's just made there? I think it's really relevant. We're talking about the number

39:22

of um bed spaces in apartment blocks and she's suggesting um regulation would

39:28

certainly help in the UK as she sees far too many five or six beds in each room. And one of the things we were going to

39:35

talk about um I don't know if this is the right time Jake but allow me just a couple of seconds just to talk about

39:40

some of the challenges that I've been having over the last few months. um as have some of our

39:46

colleagues who've been lucky enough to speak to government ministers and policy makers and anyone actually who's

39:53

who we could who we can get to speak to our sector predominantly in the UK but also in different markets around the

39:59

areas in which we uh which we have members operate but it is woeful the

40:04

lack of understanding that we're seeing from policy makers at the moment and your point Sarah is really interesting

40:10

because we are seeing um there is a very clear target being placed on and I'm

40:18

going to use this term short-term rentals very carefully but certainly in the UK um and when I've had

40:24

conversations with policy makers they simply see that the service department sector in the UK is some kind of simple

40:31

uh spectrum of accommodation at one end we know we've got the apart hotel products all of this stuff is perfectly

40:36

regulated is clearly well understood has licenses to operate um meets planning

40:42

requirements and also So building regulations requirements but there's this whole world on the other end of the

40:47

spectrum that frightens government ministers and this has been quite a revelation for us because we didn't

40:54

really understand um how murky some or or how murky some

41:00

of the policy makers see this element of the accommodation industry certainly in the UK and I think Sarah's point about

41:07

cramming beds into spaces so the the owner the the the operator the host or

41:13

whoever you want to call them can make as much money as they possibly can. Now, we've always talked since we've had

41:19

these conversations about professionalism, about differentiation, and about trying to present a

41:24

professional, transparent image to um our travelers, our our guests, whoever

41:29

we want to call them. But of course, this doesn't help. And where we are at the moment within the UK and England

41:36

certainly is um uh an introduction of something called the registration scheme. And this registration scheme is

41:42

is what Jake was talking about is in simple terms going to target all our

41:48

organizations that don't sit at that nice comfortable end, the C1 end, the part hotel end, the hotel licensed

41:55

products, but everything else and effectively be under no illusion. And

42:00

I'm not trying to doom. That's not what we're trying to do here. But effectively, this is going to be the first opportunity for policy makers,

42:08

local authorities, councils to understand the scale and size of this

42:14

short-term rental phenomenon in the UK. Now, we know what's happened in Scotland. There's been a requirement for

42:20

licensing. Um, and in other words, licensing came around before um a

42:25

registration scheme. And there's been huge uproar um around the introduction of that scheme and how effective it is

42:32

or isn't. We're not going to get into that discussion here right now. But interestingly in England, the registration scheme will identify the

42:39

scale of the problem. And I think that again, sorry Sarah, going back to your point, that will allow local authorities

42:45

to see what's happening. So if an organization is operating within a C3

42:51

residential environment, excuse me, they will need to register their business and

42:58

their apartments on the um national registration scheme. It's called the statutory registration scheme. So this

43:04

is going to be an interesting development um and we'll identify some of those challenges we talked about with

43:09

the number of occupants in apartments and so on and differentiate those that are deemed to be unprofessional from

43:16

those that are deemed to be professional. So we've got our work cut out. There's no doubt about it and Jake and I have been talking about that a

43:22

lot. But uh it's going to be a challenge to to differentiate this whole world of

43:29

professionalism from nonprof or the perception of professionalism from non-professionalism. So tricky

43:35

and then there's the uh with that the the 99 rule that's in London being rolled out essentially across the

43:41

country. Uh so ultimately the the the risk is that once the registration happens that we lose a vast chunk of

43:48

supply for 270 nights of the year once they go above that 90 nights and then can't and it'll be more than that

43:54

because essentially unless you've got a bar as we were talking about same day checkin checkout from that short stay a

44:02

um or your license to occupy or whatever it is that you're going to do instead. It's never going to be the same day and

44:08

so we're going to lose more nights and and there's a big big risk there. Um, and I think one of the things that

44:14

strikes me listening to this conversation is that we are still debating terminology that many regulators and governments don't even

44:20

understand themselves yet. They can't define what is a short-term stay. Back to our question at the start, what is a long-term stay? What is a short-term

44:26

stay? They can't define. There is no definition. So, how they can legislate against uh something they don't and

44:33

can't define is is interesting to me. Uh, history tells us something quite important about that. And that you know if an industry doesn't define itself

44:40

clearly someone else will eventually define it for them. And that's where we need to to really stick together as an

44:46

industry across the ocean across the world as it's not just the US and the UK

44:52

this is happening in this is uh all around the world and really for me the solution is build more houses we make up

44:57

uh and that's sorry interrupting you Jake. You're absolutely right and that's that's the motivation here from from

45:04

certainly the UK government is that there isn't enough homes affordable homes out there and there's been um

45:10

suggestions that one and a half million properties homes need to be found or built or whatever it is and there is a

45:17

suggestion that the um residential community so those where some

45:22

organizations offer short-term lets within apartments are technically operating illegally and those should be

45:29

allowed to um be freed up for residential use and that is a quick hit

45:35

for government if you understand. So rather than building them they could release a lot of this residential stock

45:40

very quickly and that is their motivation. Yes. Um, and the the risk with that

45:47

though is that we know in markets already where that stock exists as it is today that we're sold out and fully

45:53

booked and there's no availability for those business travelers that aren't just driving essentially GDP and economic growth, but the the amount they

45:59

spend and we know this from the Bonard study that we did with ASAP James a couple of years ago as to how much they

46:05

spend in the local economy as well, which is far more than the person living in that that local area too. supporting

46:11

the local shops and the so there's so many exactly financial implications as well if we

46:17

restrict business travel because they don't want to stay in a hotel room for six weeks so where do they go

46:23

and that was back to the point that we made right at the beginning who's using our products because if it is uh

46:28

business travelers that are coming in staying for a period of time then as you were absolutely say that these are the

46:34

guys that are investing in the local economy they're going to eat in restaurants they're going to the theater

46:39

they're buying product to use, consume themselves. So they are actually probably um investing more in the

46:46

community than maybe some of the local occupants that that that we feel may you

46:51

know the government may be targeting. So uh it's really fascinating. It's a it's a whole ecosystem of challenge and and

46:57

our work here through these conversations is raising awareness with those individual policy makers that may

47:04

not understand what it is we collectively do and who we introduce into these communities. So that's where

47:10

it's so important that we come together. Yeah. Um and also you know why it's so

47:18

important that you understand markets you're you're going into if you've not gone into them before and all of those points Kristen was making about NTV and

47:25

all of that sort of stuff. Um you know reach out to to those experts and and uh

47:30

and ask for advice and and ultimately don't get shot in the foot. Is that a saying that you guys say in the US? Shot

47:36

in the foot. Is that that Here we go. Yep. Absolutely. Yep. Um there's always weird phrases like

47:42

that that I then have to find out why we say things like um pot kettle black uh a

47:48

potter something in uh and so on. Um but essentially I think um you know the most

47:56

important message today probably isn't UK versus US. It's actually about the industry now working together and

48:02

unifying on some language or some terminology or some some sort of uh you

48:07

know mantra uh and and championing what we do, why we do it and not just uh the

48:14

impact it has on economic growth but also on on business growth on on local economies and on

48:22

mental well-being. Not that there's actually been any official studies uh into the well-being of travelers using a

48:28

a sort of home from home as opposed to a hotel when traveling, but we know really fundamentally it is uh much better for

48:35

people to be able to to have that choice and that freedom. So, um yeah,

48:41

if you put in chat GBT Jake and you say how large I've done this like six times,

48:47

it's always a different number. How large is the global corporate housing industry? How large in terms of

48:55

revenue is service department industry? Right. It is the other day.

49:01

It's in the billions. Go ahead. Sorry. We did Jake was actually ironically Jake was asking me this this question. We

49:07

just had this discussion recently. Um but that was more America's based right. So as a whole

49:14

I asked for global and it was like 63 billion dollars. So you think to yourself, how does all of property

49:20

management not know we are and and we won't even get into the relationship between corporate housing and property

49:26

management companies and why we're here, right? But six like again I got like 80

49:32

billion and then I got 40 billion whatever it it's amazing to me that more

49:38

legislators, government, they don't know they don't know about us. Here here's here's an opportunity that we

49:44

were talking about quite recently. So the CHPA and ASAP have talked a lot about um releasing some joint data and

49:50

the conversation we had is exactly that. You know, we we did our study that Jake referred to which was the Bonard study that looked at the uh the value of the

49:57

sector in the UK and and that was many billions of pounds in terms of peripheral spend and direct spend and

50:04

and everything else. So if we if we scale that up just as an assumption, you can imagine how powerful our collective

50:10

argument is. So putting together a a a professional study that that looks at both markets,

50:18

possibly even Europe as well as the USA, North America and and any other of the

50:23

big markets that our business travelers travel to. I think we have a compelling

50:29

argument to talk about the legit legit legitimacy of our sector and how we know

50:34

we need to be heard as an industry. Correct. My chat GPT has kicked back

50:39

that the global service department market is worth approximately 120 to$125

50:44

billion dollars in annual revenue. I like your number better.

50:49

We must we must be careful with the chat GBT I hear. Yes, it's caveat that is a chat GBT

50:56

stat. Um so take it with a pinch of salt. Um but it has based that essentially on the most widely cited

51:03

2024 to 2025 market sizing reports um and it report the summer reports

51:09

bundling apart hotels extended stay and corporate housing into that mix. So

51:16

yeah on that note um I think that's uh probably all the time we've got. I know

51:22

Jess is going to pop up and shout at me in a minute if I don't pass back over to her. Um, so a massive thank you to to uh

51:30

everyone on the call uh particularly obviously Barb and James for joining us uh today and giving up your time and

51:36

being so open and uh and transparent and brilliant with your discussion today. Um

51:42

and thanks to you too Kristen and to Jess. Jess, as Barb lovely points out,

51:47

our chief of staff um who is our brilliant uh organizer of all of these

51:53

webinars that does it so brilliantly and we are ever so grateful to she, not only has this been

51:59

rescheduled a few times, she's put up with her schedule, she's put up with all four of our big personalities. Big kudos

52:04

to you, Jessica, as Barb calls her the chief of staff.

52:10

Oh, thank you. Thank you so so much. Um, I would actually like to say a huge

52:16

thank you um to yourself, Jake and Kristen, and an even bigger thank you to our speakers, James and Barbara, for

52:24

sharing such fantastic, sharp insights today. Um, I will be sending across a

52:30

follow-up email with the recording shortly. Um, and if you'd like to continue a conversation to explore how

52:36

Situ can support your mobility and travel needs, um, please visit staysitu.com or you can reach out to one of the team directly. But yes, thanks again for

52:48

joining us and we look forward to seeing you at the next Situ webinar. Thank you so much. Goodbye.