Mind the Gap: Generational shifts shaping business travel

Jessica Stacey 0:12 Hello, hello everyone and welcome to Situ's Beyond Booking webinar Mind the Gap Generational Shifts Shaping Business Travel. I'm Jessica Situ's Marketing Engagement Manager and it's great to have you with us. If you're new to us, Situ is a global agency specialising in serviced accommodation and extended stays for business travellers. We support mobility, relocation and travel Teams with flexible, high quality accommodation, making complex programmes. Simple, but also people first. Today we are sharing highlights from our new white paper, Mind the Gap, with research by Yougov and enriched by industry focus groups. We will look at the four generations shaping business travel. So there'll be baby boomers, Gen. X, Millennials and Gen. Z. What truly sets them apart? How these differences show up in travel and accommodation choices, but also more importantly, what that means for you as well. Quick housekeeping, just to let everyone know we are recording today's session, but without any further ado, I am absolutely delighted to hand over to our host, Jo Redmond. She is a consultant to Situ, a leader in travel and tourism and hospitality. who will guide us through the discussion with today's panel. So, Jo, over to you.

Jo Redman 1:51 Oh, what a lovely introduction. Thank you, Jessica. Really kind of you. And yeah, good morning and welcome everybody. Lovely to have you here. And it's a real honour to be asked by Situ to to host this webinar. And I've got two fantastic panellists with me today who will introduce themselves in a moment. We've got the lovely Elsa Pollard, category manager from Murphy and Wayne. Lappage, the global commodity manager from Unix traffic. So in a moment I'll get them to introduce themselves. But yes, just to just to build on what Jessica was was reiterating there, Situ have recently produced this white paper on having four generations in the workplace. And I'm sure many of you can relate to having these generations in the workplace and the impacts across all aspects of organisations and businesses. But clearly we're all interested in travel. So today we want to really dig into that white paper and the expertise that Elsa and Wayne bring to the table around the. Impact on business travel and in particular travel accommodation. The white paper is incredibly insightful. You may have already had a look at it yourselves, or you can grab it from the Situ website or, you know, just get in touch and we'll get it sent out to you. We have highlighted here on this slide just a few of the key outputs which I think are really interesting. So 30% of millennials are applying say they wanted full flexibility when choosing where to stay. Only 41% of Gen. X and 34% of baby boomers. Think sustainability is important when selecting accommodation. Gen. Z are tracking towards non hotel accommodation and that could include service departments, short term rentals, while just 21% of the cohort state they use company approved booking tools. And younger employees express a desire to live with colleagues, an example of a well-being consideration that travel managers might want to balance within their travel programmes. So those are just a few of the key outputs. There are many more. And as I say, we'll go on and and explore more of those as we get into the webinar itself. Just to be really clear and highlight again what we're talking about with the four generations, we've got Gen. Z who are aged between 16 to 28. Millennials aged 29 to 44, Gen. X, who are aged between 45 and 60, and the baby boomers aged 61 to 79. And for the purposes of this white paper, we haven't included Generation Alpha. We know they're just coming into the workplace now, but major entry is not really going to be till around 20-30. So we've not factored that in at all. So I'll just let our panellists introduce themselves briefly before we get into the first question. So Elsa, over to you. If you'd just like to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about the Murphy group, that would be fantastic. Thank you.

Ailsa Pollard 5:05 Thank you, Jo. So I'm Elsa Pollard and I'm a category manager at Murphy Group, which is a UK owned family run business that specialises in construction and civil engineering. We have an established travel programme over here in. The UK and I'm happy to be part of this today. Jo Redman 5:22 Lovely. Thank you. And Wayne, over to you, if you could introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your organization. Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 5:29 Thank you, Joe. Can I just start with saying congratulations on pronouncing my surname correctly? Excellent work. Yeah, I'm Wayne. I'm from Unix Traffic, the the company that not many people have heard of. We are an intelligent traffic solutions company, a global company that carved out. Ailsa Pollard 5:34 Yeah. Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 5:49 Of Siemens, ITS and Mobility about four years ago. So when I'm wandering around at trade fairs, I tend to start with we used to be Siemens, we're now Unix, a global program. I have responsibility for travel expense and corporate payments like Elsa very pleased to be invited to take part in this one today.

Jo Redman 6:07 Fabulous. Thank you both. And just to reiterate, the white paper that Situ produced and wrote was pulled together based on research from the survey sent out via Yougov. So lots of independent travellers fed into that and we also had quite a few industry experts including. Elsa and Wayne who fed into the white paper as well. So all sorts of interesting insights came in to help us produce that information. So without further ado, let's go and get get going and really start having a a a dig into the white paper and and you're thinking Elsa and Wayne on some of the things that have come out of. So clearly as organisations you have both got, you know, the four generations in the workforce and it's causing, you know, various impacts for you. In particular, what are you noticing in terms of impacts on your accommodation programmes? Can I come to you first, Elsa, on that?

Ailsa Pollard 7:06 Of course. So I think for me it's booking trends and it's also customer service. So I'll get round to what I mean about that in a second. So with Murphy's we, we have a workforce that that spans from 16 to.

Jo Redman 7:18 Sure.

Ailsa Pollard 7:27 So we pretty much have every generation in between. We have operational staff and we we have office based staff as well, all travelling. So for us it's about trying to get a right balance of who wants what. And I think the only way we do that with our travel program is by understanding our travellers. So baby boomers at the the peak of their and they've probably been in the industry quite a long time. They are happy to have accommodation.

Jo Redman 7:49 Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 8:02 That is clean, comfortable, it's within a specific area of their their work job and that they can just get a nice hot cooked meal of an evening. And then down the other end of the scale we we have our newies who. Are looking for more well-being. They're looking for potentially something to do. So they're looking for a hotel that may have a gym add on or they're looking for an apartment base where they can actually live with someone else that they are working with to break up that monotomy and then obviously. We have a couple in between, so my generation, so well, don't want to reveal my age too much, but it's not millennial. You know, we we we kind of grew up with suddenly having access to technology. And I feel that my generation feels like they should use it every chance they get. So we're not happy when we're told this is where you're going to stay. We're going to research the life out of it and tell you where we want to be. And I think that's that's probably the more the challenge. And I think in the travel world, everyone goes, oh, Skyscanner, oh, we can look.

Jo Redman 9:03 Right.

Ailsa Pollard 9:13 It's on booking.com and we can get it for 30 lbs cheaper. And I think that's just because we were given access to all this information a long time ago that we like to use it and we like to stamp that through. So when we're putting our travel programme together, we try and get a varied range of accommodation.

Jo Redman 9:15 Yeah. Right.

Ailsa Pollard 9:30 That sits within the budgetary constraints. It's not the easiest, but it's about understanding your workforce.

Jo Redman 9:34 Yeah. Yeah, brilliant. OK. And so any particular adjustments you've made to to support or about wide range of requirements, you know you've talked about having a range of accommodation, but anything else you've done else at the Murphy group to? Tweak or accommodate that diversity in terms of requirements. Right.

Ailsa Pollard 10:19 And when we started on accommodation, I always remember someone saying to me, well, you know, you don't need a place with a gym, you don't need a place with a bar, you just need a place with a bed. A Travelodge will do, you know. So we we, yeah. And as time's gone on, now we're saying actually.

Jo Redman 10:20 Right. Yeah, interesting. Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 10:37 Is that hotel got a gym available in there? Can we put it into the fact that, you know, when we're running our RFIs now we're not saying we want it in just in this location in our RFIs, we're saying what value added does the hotel have? What location is it in? Can you go for a walk of an evening? Is it safe? So it's. More like the front end, the RFI is where we're really pushing for information to include hotels into the travel program that can bring a little bit more.

Jo Redman 11:06 Yeah. And you, do you feel accommodation providers are being more proactive in terms of setting themselves up to offer those things these days?

Ailsa Pollard 11:16 I think so. And I'm not going to call anyone out because that wouldn't be fair. But on my last, on my last few show rounds, I've literally been showing cupboards with a Peloton bike in there going, look, we have a gym. So I think hotels are trying to react with the space that they have and again sticking within their budgetary constraints.

Jo Redman 11:20 Sure. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 11:35 The things that they have because it's it the the leisure industry may not need a gym because they're out shopping all weekend, but actually to to entice the corporates now when when hotels are talking to me, they're very forthright with we have a gym. We have sustainable food options. We we do this as a hotel and I feel like they're trying to tick boxes to to put that in.

Jo Redman 12:04 Right, OK. Which obviously is very helpful when looking at your your younger generations, your Gen. Z's and your millennials who are perhaps demanding that type of accommodation, moral or or access to those kind of facilities.

Ailsa Pollard 12:08 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, my my only, my only reservation with this, Jo, is where does it stop? So is it, is it, is it a case of if a hotel has a treadmill, a bike and a couple of weights, that's OK? Or are we then going to expect a hotel to have a running track?

Jo Redman 12:22 Yeah. Oh, good, good point.

Ailsa Pollard 12:37 A swimming pool, a full-sized gym, extra weights. I just don't know how much accommodating we need to be doing. And my fear is when alpha comes up that we might be pushing a little bit further towards. Is it enough? I know that's not a conversation for today, but it's just that thought, you know?

Jo Redman 12:53 Sure. Yeah, well. Ailsa Pollard 12:57 It won't be long before Alpha's in our workforce.

Jo Redman 13:00 I know. And you've always got to, you know, have one be 11 foot ahead of the game if possible, haven't you? And trying to identify what your workforce are going to need or expect or or or yeah, need to be able to do their jobs as best as possible when they arrive on site, wherever that is. Yeah, brilliant. OK, thank you. Very interesting.

Ailsa Pollard 13:03 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jo Redman 13:20 Wayne, coming over to you now, really very much the same question. What what impact are these four generations causing for you in terms of travel accommodation in your organization?

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 13:30 Well, I think it's it says there first of all in the workplace and then and then on the travel accommodation program. I think my view is it's it's positive with Generation Z and millennials now emerging throughout the workforce becoming more senior in their roles. I think we see a completely different view on challenges, on how to solve problems. I think they come with a different mindset and I think we see the real emergence of of technology and a connected sort of work stream because of.

Jo Redman 13:59 Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 14:07 The pushing of the millennials and the and the Generation ZSI think when you look at a Generation Z, should I say not Z Generation Z employee, they they all have a natural ability to debate. They are great debaters. They they could all be politicians at work at my place. They are. Jo Redman 14:14 We'll take Gen. Z. That's fine.

Ailsa Pollard 14:17 Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 14:26 Very good at articulating their view and pushing for what they want. They don't necessarily take no or it's not possible as as an answer where maybe the baby boomers did. They're like, this is the policy, we're gonna stick to it.

Jo Redman 14:38 Can can I just ask there then? So you they they push their ideas and suggestions forward and you listen. What sort of format do you do that in or how do they get? How do you let them get involved in decision making?

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 14:47 Yeah, so, so we we have a heavy engagement focus. So I'm I'm really connected to the to the travelling communities and maybe the three different types of traveller that we have. Most of the Gen. Z's sit in the senior engineers or the engineer pool.

Jo Redman 14:54 Uh.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 15:05 But we are connected through travel user groups, drop in sessions, being available in the office, survey feedback that all starts with with data analysis. So you look at the data analysis, you see what's being booked. It's then about reaching out and finding why that's happening and I know there's a question later on on that, but I find.

Jo Redman 15:16 Right. Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 15:25 And the the the the the younger demographic are better at at countering their requirements with reasoning and making making me sit up and go. OK, yeah, maybe my view that I had when I first come into this industry isn't actually.

Jo Redman 15:36 OK.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 15:45 As current as it was, you're you're quite right and I think that transforms now into the the impact on travel accommodation programs. We we did introduce a quick win. It probably wasn't the quickest win, but we changed their technology provider to have better content because. Our employees and our younger employees specifically wanted greater choice. They wanted to be able to select an out of city location that had, you know, a clubhouse and a coffee shop and and a gym and and all of that. But they also wanted the the apartment type accommodation. So we had to change our.

Jo Redman 16:09 Right. Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 16:24 I won't name it, but we had to change our provider to to deliver that. And actually, they wanted to be able to sit down in the evening, watch Netflix, pull out their phone and book their accommodation next week instead of going up to the office upstairs and logging onto a laptop. So umm you know we've had to deliver that. But there is now another one. They've got that connectivity.

Jo Redman 16:37 So yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 16:43 But they want the smart tech that starts recognising their booking trends and automatically recommending what they've booked previously. So it's it's going beyond that and you've got to embrace it in my view in in order to have what we want as travel managers or the original one as travel and expense.

Jo Redman 16:49 Oh. 1.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 17:03 Category managers, the full commodity in one place and visibility, you have to embrace their wishes and start modernizing the program and bringing in the requirements that they need. That's how you get compliance, that's how you get visibility and that's how you have a connected delivered.

Jo Redman 17:08 Yeah, yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 17:21 Travel program.

Jo Redman 17:21 Brilliant. Yeah. So very, a very engaging community. But I'm just wondering, so you've got Gen. Z and the millennials sort of helping you shape your programme going forward. How are you, how are you Gen. X's and your baby boomers? Responding to those changes that are coming in or reacting to those changes that are coming in.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 17:44 Is that for me? Initially probably probably like I as as a Generation X with a little bit of a little bit of resistance. I won't be like Elsa, I will say what pot I sit in um with a little bit of of resistance, but I think I think it's it's a positive.

Jo Redman 17:45 Yep. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 18:04 Effect. I think that you know we we now see the benefits of of the accommodation choices that they're having and and wanting to tag on some leisure on the end of their business trip and maybe having the family join you as opposed to driving sort of seven hours to get back from up north. To see your family and I think I I think it's it's being embraced. I think we are very lucky to be a technology first company. So the tech first approach that the the younger demographic bring is naturally adopted by our our Gen. X and.

Jo Redman 18:31 Yeah. Show.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 18:41 Yeah, it's it's a positive thing, but I think you've got the baby boomers who will always keep the the the the latter 2 generations in in play at the moment and say, well, no, that's not physically possible because it constricts policy for this reason and This is why we do it, how we've always done it.

Jo Redman 18:57 Yeah, yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 18:58 So there's a balance, and I think there should always be a balance.

Jo Redman 19:01 Yeah, yeah. But it will be, you know, gradually the baby boomers are going to drop out of the workplace, aren't they? And then I guess, you know, the Gen. Z's and the millennials will have even greater influence and sway potentially on on travel programmes and businesses or needs and wants and desires. And then obviously as we know, the unknown, the alphas. That's coming in as Elsa has said are going to start impacting as well. So yeah, brilliant. Thank you. So moving on now thinking about you know the research that that that Situ did with the white paper. So both the survey data and the qualitative qualitative data that came in from the various.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 19:25 Totally.

Jo Redman 19:41 Experts, we started to find this trend around non hotel accommodation becoming more popular with with Gen. Z for its well-being advantages and I think by well-being the sort of things that people are talking about are not, yes, access to gyms or a yoga mat in their. Apartment room or it could be the ability to self-cater. It could be communal areas where they can go and meet people. It could be organised events, access to discounts at nearby gyms or well-being facilities or whatever. So well-being is quite a. Broad brush or the other one that I've heard of is where people even want to be able to bring their pets for example, if they're away for a long time. That's deemed a a well-being thing. So this kind of drive towards non hotel accommodation so they Gen. Z can take advantage of it well-being. Activities. What? What are your thoughts on this? I come to you first, Wayne, if that's OK.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 20:44 Yeah. So I think we are, we are seeing a real push for the non-standard accommodation types. And by that I mean your traditional hotel chains that have got, you know, 10,000 properties all around the world that you can walk in one in one country and walk in another in another. Country and they look exactly the same. They offer the same things. We are absolutely seeing and we have done for some time the emergence of of our employees wanting apartment type accommodation or hotel chains that I alluded to earlier that offer the clubhouse, the coffee shop, the the the out of city location.

Jo Redman 21:05 Yeah. Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 21:23 And I think that is is driven by even the simplistic view. You touched on it earlier to to have an area where they can meet communally. You know, it can be as simple as I had a conversation a few weeks ago and then I want an apartment because actually, yes, I want to cook. So I want to save the company money.

Jo Redman 21:30 Yeah. Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 21:43 I'm very health conscious. I want to not necessarily go and get a burger and chips and three pints of lager to help me sleep in a strange bed. I want to be able to cook my own meal. I'm I'm, you know, I'm I'm not eating carbs at the moment. Yeah, I'm not eating carbs at the moment, but actually I want to then be able to sit and chill out for an hour or two before I go to sleep.

Jo Redman 21:52 Oh. I'm all about the well-being, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 22:02 And watch TV and, you know, and catch up on my Netflix and doing that in a bed when you're sitting up against the headboard for two or three hours is painful. So I think it's it's the accommodation with those extra areas that it brings.

Jo Redman 22:10 It's quite hard, yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 22:18 The gyms, the, the, you know, the the seating areas, that is absolutely what's wanted and and we now see a real push for those and that is why we've had to look at bringing that type of accommodation content into our corporate booking tools.

Jo Redman 22:23 Be hilarious, yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 22:37 Because otherwise we are losing visibility, we're losing duty of care then because we don't know where our travellers are staying, we can't monitor the standard of it. So they want accommodation, they they want that that that apartmental type accommodation and they have very valid reasons and they can push those reasons across to the business now.

Jo Redman 22:45 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And do you think some of that is driven by what they do in their personal lives, you know, So I'm sure many of us, myself included, are Airbnb experts or, you know, whatever we source, you know, local accommodation when we go on holiday, do you think? That's impacted it. What what they do in their private leisure time is also driving what they want from their business programme, business accommodation.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 23:20 Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that they're all experts now. I think that the days of Ailsa and I being the only expert on our commodity and our category in in a business of of long gone because you know you let let's say your millennials and your generation Z's are are used to doing the research, they're used to staying in.

Jo Redman 23:23 Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 23:40 A a home that they've researched and looked at and more than comfortable with doing that. So yes, those those traits, those strategies of sourcing your own travel outside are now coming into the corporate world and they're they're like, I don't need to phone, e-mail or to to to look at a corporate booking tool.

Jo Redman 23:50 Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 23:59 And book my accommodation. I'm actually very well versed in going into booking.com, which is the buzzword or or Airbnb and and looking for what I want. I know what I want, but then it goes beyond that Joe. What they actually want is the technology and I trust I touched on this earlier to say your last 10 trips you stayed in.

Jo Redman 24:00 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Whatever. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 24:18 An apartment that had XY and Z and they want now to have those recommendations at the top of their list, not just a Unix traffic preferred hotel because we have a Unix right at this hotel. Um, so not only are they adopting and bringing into the workplace their their methods of sourcing their own travel.

Jo Redman 24:24 Right, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 24:37 They want the the AI driven technology. Yeah, that that that that promotes exactly what they want and have booked previously their trends.

Jo Redman 24:42 Oh, there's that one. Yeah, here we go, AI. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A I to be their A I to learn all about them and know what they want so they can present sent sent.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 24:56 Yeah, yeah. I mean, AI is not just about making caricatures now and getting pictures of you looking like a Disney character, I was told by someone last week. But really, I never knew that.

Jo Redman 25:06 Brilliant. OK, thank you. Elsa. Coming over to you, what are your thoughts on your your Gen. Z cohort and wanting, you know, non hotel accommodation and stuff associated with well-being? Ailsa Pollard 25:22 So we're very new to the non hotel accommodation. We've driven hotel programmes from a well-being perspective of being able to get breakfast, have an evening meal allowance, have parking on site, have that security, so.

Jo Redman 25:39 Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 25:41 Traditionally we have driven that forward and I think just to touch and expand on Wayne's comments there with the serviced accommodation, it helps that now there are serviced accommodation out there that offers on site food facilities. Jo Redman 25:59 Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 25:59 And not only that, you then have your lounge area, you then have your bedroom. And our younger generations, speaking widely and broadly, they don't want interaction with people they don't know.

Jo Redman 26:12 OK.

Ailsa Pollard 26:17 They don't want to go and sit in a restaurant on their own and have dinner. They want to go into their accommodation. They want to get their their meal, whatever that may be, whether they pick something up or have the ability to cook it. They want to plug in their phone and they want to chat to their friends on WhatsApp. They're not. They're not like the.

Jo Redman 26:19 Alright. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 26:37 Older generations, I'll be like, I'll meet you in the bar for a pint. They're not like, I'll meet you at 7:00 for dinner. They're like, this is my world. I'm quite happy in it. I have an older teenager that's more than happy to retreat to their own space.

Jo Redman 26:40 Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I love that word retreat. Hi to retreat, yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 26:53 And knock them down, retreat. Yeah. And and the the newer generations, because they are driven by technology, they interact via technology. They don't want to suddenly be forced into situations. They don't want to go for dinner. Jo Redman 27:01 Yeah. Ailsa Pollard 27:12 With a 52 year old man they've been working with all day, they don't want to necessarily be. They don't drink potentially anymore like like people used to. So that's social element, but what they still they're still looking for their gyms and and to do their own thing.

Jo Redman 27:19 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 27:28 Or to potentially live with one another that's of the same mindset. So that's what we're finding and it's how we go on that journey to adjust, but we're just starting that now. So I don't have too much to add to that point. Jo Redman 27:35 Yeah. Yeah. No. Well, but really insightful. So I've got these. I've got Elsa. I've got your Generation Z arriving at an apart hotel, a hotel or a service department. I'm straight in. I'm up to my room, shut the door, get on my phone, order some food.

Ailsa Pollard 27:51 Yeah.

Jo Redman 27:58 And just get on with my life like I do at home. And then, you know, equally then we've got, you know, perhaps the the Gen. X's or the baby boomers arrive at a hotel. I want to be checked in. I'm going to go up to my room, I'm going to come back downstairs and I'm going to have a lovely meal and be looked after in the restaurant and everything that goes to that and hopefully meet up.

Ailsa Pollard 27:59 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jo Redman 28:18 With a few people for a few beers in the bar afterwards, which which Wayne was talking about as well, so very different profiles.

Ailsa Pollard 28:20 Yeah. Yeah. I've I've find that baby boomers want someone to talk to. They want, they want someone to be that reassurance when they check in. They want to just down to wanting to. There's always this, this moment when you get to a hotel and you're like, is this the one I'm staying at? I've been to so many wrong ones.

Jo Redman 28:32 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Hey, I'm there. Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 28:45 And when when you're older and you're in a different town and you just want to get there and speak to someone, you want to know which way your room is. You want to know what time you can come down for breakfast. They just want that reassurance. So and and and then at the other end of the scale, they just want to check in. There's some hotel. Jo Redman 28:52 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 29:05 Now we don't even have to talk to a person. You put your e-mail address in, your reservation comes up, you print your own card and off you go. So it's very, very different between the generations. It really is.

Jo Redman 29:07 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, this is really interesting stuff. Thank you guys for sharing so much with us. And I'm like, now I've got you too. You're like, you know, you're, you're jugglers. You're balancing, aren't you? You've got these different generations in the workforce. You've got your. Your policies, procedures of of your organisation, your due diligence, you've got the cultures within your business and you've got obviously the the type of work your your different employee groups are doing. How on earth do you go about balancing those? Priorities and the generational spirit. So you know, you know, balancing budget, location, company culture, ESG priorities such as as due diligence, you know, how do you balance them and can you put an order to those priorities in any way at all? I mean, Elsa, I don't know if you'd like to have a. Go at that first of all.

Ailsa Pollard 30:13 That's a very big question. See, at Murphy's culture is everything. We are one, one team, one family, one Murphy. We we live by that. And so within our policy, everyone from our senior execs to to our newest new starter on a Monday morning.

Jo Redman 30:15 Yeah, absolutely. Love that, yeah. Right. Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 30:43 Our one Murphy values, our core values is that we're basically we're in it together and together we will just succeed. So, so that knowing that we have that underpins our policy and that as a travel manager that gives me.

Jo Redman 30:49 Love it. Love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

Ailsa Pollard 31:00 Kind of like the edge to fight anyone that's kind of arguing with me over policy. And people do. People don't like the budgets and they don't like the the constraints. But I think responsibly when you are running a travel programme, you have to understand your strategic drivers. Jo Redman 31:05 Yeah. Ailsa Pollard 31:19 You have to understand the strategy of the business. And then when you understand that, then you understand why there's a budgetary monetary constriction. And that's when you can drive that because you understand why and anyone that comes to you to question it, you've got that reasoning.

Jo Redman 31:30 Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 31:37 So for us and and probably for Wayne as well, budgets always come first. We have programmes that we have to run to on time and in budget. It's not always easy, it really isn't. And you've got certain times of the year, I mean.

Jo Redman 31:47 Yeah, of course.

Ailsa Pollard 31:52 You try and get a hotel in London this weekend and and see how much that's going to set you back because of the time of year. So we have to take that into account. We are striving for sustainability. Every business in the UK has its own goals, travels just a little bit.

Jo Redman 31:59 Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 32:09 Harder to go by at the moment because everyone has their own carbon calculators and everyone's looking at different ways. So until the industry settles on a robust sustainability reporting, we would love to drive it and we drive as much as we can, but we can only drive so much.

Jo Redman 32:22 Comp set. Yeah. Of course.

Ailsa Pollard 32:29 So at the moment, yes, it's a priority, but it's not our number one. So the health and well-being of our employees is first. We look at budgetary and then we will look at the sustainability and we are starting now to push for more sustainable options, but the smaller wins, so we're asking for.

Jo Redman 32:32 Yeah, OK.

Ailsa Pollard 32:48 Hotels that are being a little bit more responsible, whether that's the wooden keycards instead of the single-use plastic, whether or not that's glass water bottles in your room, if they supply water, we're asking for these smaller wins rather than how much carbon do you do you accumulate because no one settled on an.

Jo Redman 32:56 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 33:08 Actual calculator for that, yet not contrast the data.

Jo Redman 33:10 Yeah, brilliant. Thank you. Well, thank you for sharing that. And so culture, well-being and yeah, safety of of of of your folks, of your, of your people, absolutely top priority with with budget coming in underneath and then starting to factor the other things in really, really.

Ailsa Pollard 33:12 So that's that's for us. Basically. Budget. Yeah. Yeah.

Jo Redman 33:30 Interesting. Thank you, Wayne. Anything you want to to add to that or you can share with us in terms of how you juggle your priorities?

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 33:39 Yeah, and it's it's a challenge, OK. And it is a challenge as I said earlier because you you have the Gen. Z's who are naturally very, very good at at challenging and putting their point of view across. Now I'm not saying that they are, they're all disruptors because because they're not, but they they come with a view.

Jo Redman 33:41 Sure, yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 33:58 to the you know change should be accepted so we are very fortunate as as an organization like Ailsa because we're quite young our leadership team do live and breathe and set by example they do follow the policy so that makes things easier as Ailsa said for

Jo Redman 34:16 Yeah, it must do. I can imagine. Yeah, yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 34:18 For for us, if if the CEO and the CFO are are following, you know the the the black and white in the policy, then there's no reason why you you shouldn't sort of further down the the the team command as it were, but um. Jo Redman 34:26 Yeah. Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 34:34 Budget will always be a priority for us. We are primarily project driven. Our profit and loss comes from budget success within those individual projects and and and really making sure that we are lean in our operating costs. Jo Redman 34:37 Of course.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 34:51 However, we are also equally big again as a young company, as a young company on company culture. So within our company culture it's it's very much health and safety 1st and and employee first. So our Gen. Z's do have the argument to say well actually your policy is saying this, but our our company culture and our ethos are saying.

Jo Redman 35:04 Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 35:11 They're at loggerheads and it is a battle and I think that's why now I've kind of done my job differently to what it was when I come in to being a buyer and said, you know, the door's closed, this is the policy, you follow it. Whereas now it is about connecting with the users and understanding their points. Jo Redman 35:12 Oh. Yeah. Engagement, yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 35:30 Of view and and trying to bring in the different types of accommodation that they want available the way they want to book it. And sometimes it's it's it's about being honest and I am honest more often than not and say look I can hear why you want this. Jo Redman 35:39 Yeah, yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 35:46 I can. I can understand why you need this where possible. We're gonna try and incorporate that. But do understand that there will always be a city cap in play. And if what you are asking for exceeds that city cap and the CEO is not exceeding that city cap, then unfortunately.

Jo Redman 35:54 Yeah. You're not going to either.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 36:02 You're not, you're not going to, but I will work as hard as I can to support you and find options for you or bring options into the palm of your hand to deliver what you want. And most people are reasonable when you when you take that approach.

Jo Redman 36:11 Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah. OK. OK. Thank you. Thank you again for sharing that because that's quite a tricky one and asking you some quite intimate questions about what priorities your businesses have got. So it just brilliant to hear people, people first, safety first, all that good stuff first, but absolutely understand.

Ailsa Pollard 36:26 Mhm.

Jo Redman 36:36 And the relevance and importance of budgets underpinning that and then starting to explore other priorities. Wayne, you've been touching on technology quite a quite a bit and I know we talked about this when we did the original interviews of white paper. So tell me a bit more about, you know, this younger generation wanting, wanting.

Ailsa Pollard 36:51 Yep.

Jo Redman 36:56 All in the part. I mean, they're like this, wanting it all in the palm of their hands. How to how? And yeah, just build on what you've told us already, really. But yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 37:00 Yeah, the app apps. Absolutely. I think Alison mentioned something earlier where she said you know we we we our generation was introduced to the to the booking tool idea. First of all you know you can go online and you can book something and you don't have to to speak to a travel management company. You don't even have to e-mail them now you can you can do it at your desktop. We shifted now logging onto your desktop.

Jo Redman 37:21 Yeah, yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 37:24 is something that you know my dad used to do. These These guys, they want it in the palm of their hand and what they want to be able to do is go into an app and as I said earlier, have that recommendation that states, oh I can see you're staying in Manchester the last time you stayed here.

Jo Redman 37:27 Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 37:44 However, here's an alternative to that that has the same options. It comes with a great gym and there is technology out there and we're constantly being pushed to to bring in that third party tech that plugs into the online booking tool and the apps that that consolidates all of that. Here's your your previous requirements.

Jo Redman 37:47 Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 38:03 Here's what's available and this is what we recommend you book. They wanna be able to do it at 8:30 at night when they're watching traders. They don't wanna have to sit at the dining room table and and and log on.

Jo Redman 38:12 Yeah, log on to their laptops, yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 38:14 Gone. Abs, absolutely not. And and actually what they want is the freedom to choose what they want and not be, um, you know, not not be restricted by policy. So not only is it about bringing in.

Jo Redman 38:27 Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 38:31 Bring it in the different accommodation sort of ideas that they want. It's about ensuring that you've got the modern tech that supports them to book it all in one place and actually they want freedom. So you have to be and the likes of Elsa and I have to be very creative in our policy creating with finance and and develop a dynamic policy. see that allows these individuals to to choose. That's what they want, freedom of choice. They don't necessarily like the the idea of, okay, this is what you have to do and this is how you need to do it. It's about flexibility. Um And we are getting there, we are finding that this technology

Jo Redman 38:54 Yeah. Yeah, region with choice, yeah. Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 39:11 Is available now and it's becoming more and more connected, as I've said, and I strongly put that towards and put that in Generation Z's ability to counter argue and push that that availability of technology is there to deliver what they want. Jo Redman 39:25 Yeah. Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 39:26 Um, but yeah.

Jo Redman 39:28 Does the out of interest, does the tech when they're when see this when when they've got it in their palms, is it throwing back some data to them as well about how many nights they've stayed away or I don't know?

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 39:38 Yep, Yep, absolutely. It's it's, you know, it's it's throwing that back. It's also since somewhere it recommends that you could maximise your well-being opportunity here by staying for an extra 2 nights on Friday and Saturday and it's only going to cost X amount more. That brings that brings issues to also and I then in how do you incorporate that into a policy and how do they claim for that through the the the very rigid expense management channels that we have. So yeah, it it it's all available, it's it's all there and every week something new is coming out in the.

Jo Redman 39:56 Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 40:16 In in in the workspace and in the technology offerings that promotes well-being, better choice and just a better option for you. The challenge is how do we incorporate that into a controlled corporate environment because we still need to have control.

Jo Redman 40:32 Yeah. Course you do.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 40:33 And I don't yet have the answer. I'm getting there. How else am I though? Jo Redman 40:35 Oh, I was going to ask you that. I was going to ask the 6,000,000, what's the Elsa, is there anything you wanted to add on on the technology side of things about, you know, the the people wanting it, the younger cohorts wanting it in the palm of their hands? Is there anything you guys are doing from that perspective? 

Ailsa Pollard 40:53 So we've moved away from the days when we used to have an embedded card at a specific hotel and then went into the TMC route. So for the last, I'd say for the last four years, we've had technology that allows you to view your bookings online. And I'll say in the last six months we've changed that to being able to book online. You can always. Work on a mobile version on a on a web enabled mobile version, but now we've actually got apps embedded and I and I think just to expand from Wayne's point, I think it's the convenience. Our world is relying on convenience and.

Jo Redman 41:15 Yeah. Great. Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 41:30 Aside from wanting to know which is the best places to stay, what we're finding is people want to be able to track their route from beginning to end. So if I'm going to leave Stafford on a on a Monday morning, they want to know how I'm going to get there. I'm going to know where I'm going to stay, what's convenient for my meeting, When should I come back? What's a good time? Is it just? Off peaks on Fridays. So they want that kind of information drummed in that people. And I think this comes back to my point earlier is when where does it stop? So we thought we would be really like forward thinking, being like you can now book your hotel at home, like on your mobile phone, on an app, you can see all your data, all your information.

Jo Redman 42:00 Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 42:09 And see where you stayed before. But now and and again, it's that now they're like, so how do I get there? And what do you mean how do you get there? You get there like how you worked like no, no, but the but the app's not telling me should I should I drive or should I get a train? Should I fly? And I'm like, wow.

Jo Redman 42:09 Right, yeah. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah, yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 42:24 So it's getting to the point where almost people just want the trip just planned out in the most convenient manner in the palm of their hands. And I think this is the next and I think this is where A I will really drive. I've seen a few technologies out there.

Jo Redman 42:30 To be to. OK.

Ailsa Pollard 42:44 We're starting to really play with this, but that that this is where we're going forward. So we're moving away from what I thought was a brilliant like you can do it at home to actually that's not enough because now we want this and we want this and we want this. So it's just forever evolving and it's great.

Jo Redman 42:46 Yeah. And and that's so interesting, isn't it? Because you kind of that, you know, you've got, you know, Gen. Z and the millennials saying I want to be in charge. Yeah, equally I want it in the palm of my hand and I want the palm of my hand to tell me the best way to get there. And so I sort of, you know.

Ailsa Pollard 43:12 Yeah, yeah.

Jo Redman 43:15 I want it all. I want to be in charge, but I also want to be told by my, you know, with with a bit of choice. Yeah, very interesting.

Ailsa Pollard 43:21 Yeah. And and just just to reiterate, baby boomers just want an e-mail with a confirmation attached. They they just, they just want an e-mail and a confirmation and they will sort themselves out and they will arrive on time. They won't be relying on anyone else. It's not everyone else's fault if the train doesn't come.

Jo Redman 43:27 Yes, please. We're very, we're very compliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 43:41 But then as you come down the lines, that's when you start seeing the different levels of wants, needs and expectations.

Jo Redman 43:45 OK. Fascinating. So we're coming close to our finishing time. I've got one final question, which I'm sure everybody listening will be really keen to hear. You're both fabulous experts. What advice would you give to organisations just starting to adapt their travel or mobility policies to a more? Diverse workforce. So Wayne, what would you? What would be your key tips and pointers?

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 44:14 I think it's it's open the doors, embrace, embrace change and embrace these these sort of differences across the the generations and you you do that by staying connected so. As a global commodity manager, I'm responsible for the short, mid and long term strategy of the program that's across 35 years. And what you want is generally to have full visibility and control of what's being spent. And the only way you you do that is by embracing change and adapting your policies. Otherwise you are going to. to get leakage. I read somewhere in the in the white paper, 21% of cohorts confessed to to using the booking tool. So we've got huge leakage there if I've read that correctly. The only way you deliver both, and that is your duty of care, your health and safety requirements.

Jo Redman 44:50 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you did, yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 45:07 Your cost savings and visibility is by by embracing what these guys want. And when I first come in to being a buyer, I had a very, very square view of of how a program should look. Um, and that was probably where I had some of my highest leakage. So the the way that we've got there is being available, being in the office, looking at the data and following up with these individuals and say, look, I can see actually in the last three months.

Jo Redman 45:27 Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 45:38 You have shifted to this type of accommodation, not just in one city, but in three or four locations. What? Why is that? What's driving that? And they will be very open to you. If they're Gen. Z's, they will give you the reasons why, and then they'll want to know what you're going to do to bring it back in and make it easier for them to do it. So it's about embracing and it's about being really, really close to to your to your user groups and don't be frightened to enter a room and just answer the ask the questions. What do you need? What do you need from me? My my job here is to deliver to deliver something that works for you. So let's let's work together.

Jo Redman 46:01 Yeah. Brilliant. OK. Yeah.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 46:14 together and and what can I, what can I do to make your lives easier? That's how we've thought about changing our policy at the moment.

Jo Redman 46:18 Lovely. Fabulous. Thank you. And the same with you, Elsa. What would be your top tips or recommendations for people setting out on this journey?

Ailsa Pollard 46:31 Know your workforce. If you don't know your workforce, your travel program will fail instantly. You need you need to know your workforce. You need to know what percentage you have within your different area groups. You need to know what their preferences are going to be, or else you could be tailoring a travel.

Jo Redman 46:37 Right.

Ailsa Pollard 46:50 Have a program that just doesn't work. I think from that you need to start collecting your data set as soon as you can, but also interrogate your data. Where are your booking trends? Where are people staying? What are their preferences? You need to be able to do this and your travel policy needs to be adaptable. I'm not saying you have to change every month, but if you are, if you are, yeah, but if if you are a start-up, I would say find some people in your industry already that are travel buyers within that and it has to be within your industry because if I was.

Jo Redman 47:12 Phew.

Lappage, Wayne (YU TO P GCM-I) 47:14 Definitely not.

Ailsa Pollard 47:25 To go to a law firm and ask them for their travel policy and and try and mirror that in my industry, it's not going to work. So find this. There's a brilliant connection and network of buyers out there through the ITM, through the BTS, through through everywhere you can find connections.

Jo Redman 47:31 Sure.

Ailsa Pollard 47:41 You can have those conversations and those buyers will give you their background, their history, their what what went wrong, what's going right, but will also tailor it for for you and your your kind of company. Once you have that, I think it'd take a good 12 months for you to settle.

Jo Redman 47:42 Yeah. Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 48:01 On a strong and robust travel policy, but coming at it from a you will book 100 lbs a night, you will stay within an hour, you will do this, you will do that. That's not going to work because too many people have an opinion on travel.

Jo Redman 48:02 Yeah. Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 48:16 Unfortunately, it's the most opinionated part of the world. And I think somebody was telling me the other day, when you go to a company, you don't question your laptop brand, you don't question your keyboard and your mouse and where it comes from.

Jo Redman 48:18 Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 48:33 But you do question if you're going to be stopping in a Holiday Inn in Stevenage High Street. So it it is.

Jo Redman 48:36 Yeah, well, it's it's a highly emotive travel. It's a highly emotive product, isn't it? Yeah.

Ailsa Pollard 48:41 It really is. And I think as a travel manager you have to be ready for the emotion and you have to be able to handle that. So that that's my tips.

Jo Redman 48:45 Yeah. Thank you. Really insightful. And the other one I heard from you earlier, Elsa, was about linking very closely to your company, why and culture, which I know is the same for you, Wayne as well. Guys, awesome. Really, really appreciate that. Thank you so much. We've learnt a lot.

Ailsa Pollard 48:55 Yes, yeah.

Jo Redman 49:05 Jessica, if I hand back to you now and let you just wrap up the the call for us.

Jessica Stacey 49:12 Of course, of course. Thank you ever, ever so much. I will just share the screen over here. Wonderful. Again, thanks so much, Joe, and a huge thank you to yourself and our speakers, Wayne and Elsa, for sharing such sharp and practical insights. I must say I will be sending across a follow up e-mail and the recording with your exclusive copy of Mind the Gap white paper if you'd like to continue the conversation or explore how Situ can support you with your travel, mobility or your relocation needs. just visit staysitu.com or reach out to one of the team directly. But yeah, thanks again for joining us and we all look forward to seeing you at the next Situ webinar. Thanks so much. Thank you.

Jo Redman 50:04 Thanks, Jessica.